quote:

Originally posted by Dandelion:
So – look out for “mate guarding” behaviour from your “primary partner”, Hollie!

Whahahaha, thats really funny! And yes, recognizable ! (Uh, oh...) But he had no facial hair at all! And he didn't strike me as masculine. He was just Very cute. (Very cute, in general, I mean. Fact. Ahum.) But I didn't notice/pay attention to it until I got that look. Heh.

'Primary mate' wasn't looking at that moment, I guess. No guarding here... sight.

My first reaction to reading about the German disco girls was; 'But I was wearing team-clothing!!' Alrighty, thats an ultrashort black tennis/hockey skirt with an ugly red oversized team-shirt, but still- not quite the moment to feel sexy. And later that evening I wore jeans and a nice Bitten-shirt by the way, no cleavage or too much skin, not exactly please-take-me-I'm-fertile-clothing.

But thanks a lot, I'll pay extra attention to the being (un-) dressed part around day 18... (Yaiks...)


Wait a sec.... does this also mean women on the pill are more likely to stay monogamous? (is that the word?)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hollie Holland,

quote:

Originally posted by Hollie Holland:
I think I red something about this in your book... Do a lot of women experience this attentionawareness/attentiongenerating effect?

Yes. I don't have answers for you. It certainly changes things!

And it has nothing to do with what you look like or what you are wearing.

No, it certainly doesn't! I'm 41 years old and I honestly found myself being checked out by a much younger man during my workout at the YMCA on Monday afternoon. I was wearing ratty old workout clothes, had my hair in a ponytail, no make-up and I was sweaty. I thought it was my imagination at first, but I caught him looking at me more than once. And I didn't have a booger hanging out of my nose or anything in my teeth! He was pretty hot too!

"I was wearing ratty old workout clothes, had my hair in a ponytail, no make-up and I was sweaty."

And that doesn't sound sexy to you??!!

quote:

Originally posted by Hollie Holland:

Wait a sec.... does this also mean women on the pill are more likely to stay monogamous? (is that the word?)

What an intriguing idea! I assume so, but only in as much as the pill seems to deaden women's responses. I could not find anything on the Internet about this, but I did come across an item about a different aspect of "mate selection".

It seems coming off the pill and going on to Marrena's diet are both potentially disruptive for relationships, mainly because women become more ALIVE!

http://www.physorg.com/news137824489.html

"The results showed that the preferences of women who began using the contraceptive pill shifted towards men with genetically similar odours.”

"Not only could MHC-similarity in couples lead to fertility problems but it could ultimately lead to the breakdown of relationships when women stop using the contraceptive pill, as odour perception plays a significant role in maintaining attraction to partners."

Oh, I mentioned the clothing-thing because of the article with the German disco girls who wore less clothing during ovulation. (depending on BF's being around and other things)

Haha, 'ratty old workout clothes'doesn't sound very sexy to me either! But I'm a girl, maybe men think its hot (the sweaty part?), but I never ever feel sexy wearing sportshoes, no matter how little clothing I wear. And you sort of need the sportshoes, so I don't pay attention to looking good while working out. (Although I do sometimes want to look very skilled and dangerous, so the girl who has to prevent me from scoring gets intimidated and it takes her a lot more time to find out I actually suck at the game )

Wauw, this is so funny and fascinating! There really is something they pick up, but what is it? Those researchers focus on the clothing a bit, but like Marrena said, that is not it, I'm sure! And I wasn't sending messages, hell I was getting exhausted and didn't even think about it, and Michele doesn't sound like she was very sexual-minded that moment too. So, its something really suble men notice. It was as if he knew. (Muwhahhahhahhahhah... [hollow echo] this is getting mysterious. Maybe he was an alien. Maybe we/they/men do have a sixt sense... )

I think women on the pill don't get this. Or are there women who were on the diet ánd on the pill? I wonder what the cheat-rate is for both women on the pill and non-takers.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hollie Holland:
Those researchers focus on the clothing a bit, but like Marrena said, that is not it, I'm sure! .. So, its something really suble men notice. QUOTE]

Maybe I am a weirdo, with my preference for lithe mobile women with glowing skin, flashing eyes, and great vivacity. But that is exactly the preference all my (male) friends have expressed too.

Sports shoes are sexy because they allow the foot to move naturally, the whole leg to move gracefully, and the hips to sway properly (not in that ridiculous tottering manner you see with high heels). The movements women make while exercising show off their hip/waist ratio, and make the best of a poor one - even if covered in loose clothing. In fact loose clothing can reveal the movement of the body more clearly and precisely than tight clothing. The hair held up in a pony tail reveals the undulations of the neck and the delicate ears. The lack of makup means you can see the flush in the cheeks and lips which exertion provokes.

Ask your menfolk. I bet a great many, if not all, will agree with me! It is not really that subtle. Healthy equals sexy.

quote:

Originally posted by Dandelion:
It seems coming off the pill and going on to Marrena's diet are both potentially disruptive for relationships, mainly because women become more ALIVE!

"The results showed that the preferences of women who began using the contraceptive pill shifted towards men with genetically similar odours.”

"Not only could MHC-similarity in couples lead to fertility problems but it could ultimately lead to the breakdown of relationships when women stop using the contraceptive pill, as odour perception plays a significant role in maintaining attraction to partners."

Yes, I red something similar a few months ago. It made me wonder, there is much more to the pill than the information we are provided with by doctors. Before I was on the pill I fell in and out of love, but on the pill I felt flattened out and disconnected from everything. I also felt indiffrent all the time. I now realize I did not once react to a man in over 1,5 year! I thought I had matured or something (you don't know what to think when you change without reason) but now everything is kicking right back in. All of a sudden Will Smith in I,Robot is just HOT and Brad Pitt is indeed the sexiest man on earth again.

There's a post called 'feelings toward BF/HB' on this forum and it seems a lot of women have that shift in attraction. The complaits:

* I don't feel anything for him (or her)
* I have no sex drive
* I'm paranoid I'm gay
* it came on all of a sudden
* maybe I don't love them anymore etc
* I'm paranoid I like other men

I had the exact same thing, exapt for the gay part, I figured I had to be bi.

Thats a copy-paste from this forum http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com/forums/ubbthreads....er=150402#Post150402

quote:

Originally posted by Dandelion:
Maybe I am a weirdo, with my preference for lithe mobile women with glowing skin, flashing eyes, and great vivacity. But that is exactly the preference all my (male) friends have expressed too.

Sports shoes are sexy because they allow the foot to move naturally, the whole leg to move gracefully, and the hips to sway properly (not in that ridiculous tottering manner you see with high heels). The movements women make while exercising show off their hip/waist ratio, and make the best of a poor one - even if covered in loose clothing. In fact loose clothing can reveal the movement of the body more clearly and precisely than tight clothing. The hair held up in a pony tail reveals the undulations of the neck and the delicate ears. The lack of makup means you can see the flush in the cheeks and lips which exertion provokes.

Ask your menfolk. I bet a great many, if not all, will agree with me! It is not really that subtle. Healthy equals sexy.

Really?! I thought men liked women in high heals for that hipmovement (and thats great 'cause high heals make me look taller=slimmer) and I thought they liked tight clothing because of the display of, you know, the figure (think: Cat/Bat-woman). and I thought they liked make-up because of the blusher and the red lipstick!

And I cannot see the diffrence between women on the pill and women who never take the pill. I once I had to guess who of my classmates took the pill and I guessed the girls in relationships and the girls with an attitude. I was slightly off, but I wouldn't have thought for one second to just look at them. I had the feeling I looked healthier on Yasmin since the occasional spot vanished and I had a clear skin.

So its subtle, if not invisible, to me. Are you saying you can tell wheter a woman takes the pill or not?

No, I think it is signals. I'm 42, very overweight, very out of shape, and men literally follow me around. And when I was younger, much thinner, and pretty dang hot if I say so myself, I didn't get this attention. I must signal the men somehow in the way I hold my body and look at them. And perhaps pheromones too, I don't know.

Hmm, that must be great for job-interviews -> kidding

But you can't deliberatly hold your body in a way and look at a man to catch his attention, can you? They notice and think its pathetic. Or maybe I just sucked at doing that. In highschool I looked nice, if I may say so, I was a size 6/8 and I was the fastest girl with running/softball/soccer you name it. I was supposed to be attractive at that age, but noooo, I always fell in love with boys who barely noticed me. And seriously, I embarrest myself quite many times trying to give those boys a certain 'look' but they always reacted like 'Sight... a desperate girl, how am I going to get rid of her.' They always looked right through me and it made me feel stupid. (And they always eventually got blond girlfriends, so I had a grudge for quit some time against all the petite blonds)

Anyway, point is that I think those signals are not deliberate. And I look average, I'm a size 10 and what looked promising once turned out to look ordinairy. And now I'm getting attention? That doesn't make sense to me either.

So its probably not coming off the pill, but its your diet! The more I know the more I like it.

“Really?! I thought men liked women in high heals for that hip movement”

Yes, that can be provocative too– but that is not the only way to look sexy. I personally think high heels spoil the sway of the entire body, but a great many men do like them.

“ (and thats great 'cause high heals make me look taller=slimmer)”

Tallness and slimness are attractive qualities to an extent, but a curvy figure is more important (See: http://www.beautycheck.de/). Judging from conversations with my (female) friends, women tend to grossly overestimate the important of tallness and slimness as an attractive feature in women, and undervalue the vital hip/waist ratio. My small circle of friends is hardly a representative sample of course!!

“ and I thought they liked tight clothing because of the display of, you know, the figure (think: Cat/Bat-woman). “

Yes I am sure many men do, but I was trying to explain how loose clothing, especially in movement, could look equally alluring - if not more so. Michelle's appearance was more provocative than she thought.

“and I thought they liked make-up because of the blusher and the red lipstick!”

Well, that looks appealing because it imitates and exaggerates a healthy skin. In the gym Michelle was probably achieving that look naturally. In my view make-up usually has a detrimental effect because it makes translucent skin opaque, spoiling its radiance. But I recognise I am in a minority on this one! Arguably the French style of (minimal) make-up is the best because it destroys this translucency the least.

“Are you saying you can tell whether a woman takes the pill or not?”

No. I was trying to explain why sports attire could appear sexy!

I was amazed at your trial amongst your school friends. What a great idea! I can see evaluating the before and after effect would be almost impossible though.

Haha! Dandelion, I had never thought of myself as looking sexy while working out until I read your post. Hmmmmmm. I've also gotten looks while going about my normal daily routine. I usually don't wear any make-up unless I'm going out on the town and the last time I went out with a group of girlfriends, I got a very obvious look from a waiter. He didn't even try to be discreet! It's funny to me because I don't consider myself hot or sexy. I'm certainly not ugly and I have a pretty decent body for a 41-year-old mom of 2 young kids, but I'm really rather ordinary-looking. It has to be something with pheromones. I find it all fascinating!

quote:

Originally posted by Dandelion:
(See: http://www.beautycheck.de

That link was working earlier today, but not when I tried it just now. Here is another link to the same site:
http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/phil_Fak_II/Ps...beautycheck/english/

Hé, I took part in that experiment!! I forgot all about it, and now here are the results! Cool...

Thank you for your man's point of view! I find the diffrence between what girls think to be attractive and what men find attractive fascinating. I once red about a guy who didn't like Sarah Jessica Parker for bringing so much hypes in clothing he didn't think were attractive at all! And he wasn't the only one.

I think I do overstate bodyweights and sizes. But I grew up with that, my dad always commented on my mom when she at too much, and she for her part was on a diet every spring. Always weighting her food and counting amounts. I have some nieces with size 6 and everybody keeps praising their figures. So in my head that goes 'size 6= gorgeous'. I also have a few nieces with size 14 and the aunts would always whisper how sad that is.

When I went from size 6 (EU 34) to size 8 for the first time my mom used to act like she was shocked when I walked in after school. "Oh! Look at your butt!! Its getting enormous!" she used to scream. And then comment on every single piece of treat I took during the day, every day. Yeah, my mom is a pretty sick woman. I was like 14, insecure and genuinly convinced I was fat (at size 8, I mean, how sick can things get?). There you go, I didn't eat anything anymore for a few weeks. At some point she found out and hit me with a plate till it broke. She forced me to take a sandwich and, well, at least I was eating again.

At 16/17 I got depressed a bit and at myself from size 8 to 12. I want food when I'm sad. At 18 I thought it was enough, I did WeightWatchers, lost 19 pounds and started sporting again. I'm a size 10 now (5'8" and 130 pounds) and OK with it. If I weight less I get trouble keeping up at sports. At size 8 I feel a bit spacey, weak and unhealthy so I shouldn't desire size 8. Unfortunatelly, in my family, I'm still considered slightly fat.

But when it comes to guys' opinions about it, I've been surprised before. In highschool a classmate once offered me something and I told him I was on a diet. I talked about it a little bit and he got mad. He told me I looked great and not everything is about sizes when it comes to women. And I was like "Huh? It isn't?!"

Both my boyfriends (one at age 15, and current one) wanted me to eat. As in 'Please, I can count your ribs, EAT!' I always figured they had a weird taste, but maybe they are the normal ones here. My ex-BF (still a good friend) now has a girlfriend that looks very much like me, but she has size 14. (My mom even started talking to her on my birthday thinking it was me- that was creepy) She is very (beautifully) curvy and not happy about it. She wants the size 8, just as every other girl around here. But I know her BF cannot imagen a better figure than hers. He used to say "size 6/8 looks like a sack of bones on broomsticks. What are we? At war?"

So to me overstating weight and size is pretty natural, and I can imagen many girls feel the same. Maybe teenage magazine's should post more guys opinions about figures. Because amongst eachother girls tend to make eachother paranoid about it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Hollie Holland,