Zaneblue or others with experience with older female not interest in sex could you look at this poast and offer any advice. I posted this on http://www.hisandherhealth.com/cgi-bin/ubb_newshe/ultim...1;t=002738;p=0&r=nfx
Women's Sexual Health forum.

For mow I want advice on the possible mechanical/medical improvements I/we could introduce so sex was less uncomfotable for my W. I realise all of the emotional and relationship issues are the main problem. She has some things that I think are not as bad as I might imagine them to be. My W is somewhat dramatic and sees things in black or white, then goes into with draw. Thinks nothing can be done.


I am back. Last year I was here asking for advice about my W's frequent UTI's. I found enough information about UTI's and that problem is solved only now she wants us to give up having sex.

I would say our basic R is fair at best. My W is picky and many things I do for her and my self don't measure up to her standards. My W is generally an unhappy person and feels almost everyone slights her or is using her in some subtle way.

In general our R has been going down hill very slowly. At one time she was a shopaholic and was on antidepressants because one of her dogs died. She had 4 dogs and 6 cats and 3 big birds. She tells me she likes pets better than people, and has for a very long time.

I am 62 and my W is 65. I work and she is retired. I cook at least 50% of the meals and we eat out often. I ask for very little from her. If she makes some food I eat it as I am not picky.

I spend a couple of hours a day sitting with her but don't talk much. My W has a strong opinion on several subjects and if I voice mine, it sets her off. My W will hint and get into position for me to rub her back and feet. I do it for a couple of hours at a slow rate with lots of breaks. I do it for several days and get a thanks, but nothing else most of the time.

While I rub her back and feet, she pets her dog and tells him how handsom he is. I say "what about me" Oh You are OK too.

She had breast cancer the size of a pea 10 years ago and took tamoxifen for 5 years post lumpectomy and has been off it for 5 years.

Before the UTI problems, we started to have to use KY. She wanted to give up sex then but didn't say much. She just held out and started saying no more often. Sex once every 10 days.

Then sex once every 2 or 3 weeks when the UTI's were a problem. We got that problem fixed, none for over a year but she uses the possibility of getting a UTI to avoid sex.

Things got a little better and we switched to Astroglide. That was short lived.

She told me several times all I wanted what was between her legs. I said not true. I want someone that I have an emotional connection with, someone that wants to do things they and I like doing. I did say her pickyness and frequent vetoing almost all of my suggestions to do things together were a big problem.

I have been at this relationship building for 3 years and have read over 15 relationship books. My last book concept came from a book "Peace Between The Sheets"

The books concept is to lay in bed nude with the w on top and kiss and stroke each others body but not have sex. Like most other things, that worked for a week or two.

My w recently said she wished I was like other guys my age. She tries to convince me I should have ED at my age and she often says she is too old for sex and it is part of natures plan, IE only childbearing women are built to have sex.

I said BS on both counts. I said I was normal for me and said I understand sex for her not enjoyable. some how in her mind I am supposed to intellectually just give up all of my sex drive /libido because she has no interest in sex but once a year.

She is not interested in me doing anything to her or is she interested in pleasuring me in any way. She even commented I should have married someone like one of her friends that likes sex for a couple of hours at a time. To me this is just a dirty jab and a way to deflect [our] conversation.

Recently, she has said intercourse is becoming painful and wants to quit having sex for the rest of the summer. She also said something similar last winter. I have empathy but still am boiling inside sexually. sure there is masturbation but I still want to make out hold her and be held. I never liked the wam-bam, go to sleep thing.

So I guess if Valentines Day is warm and I do everything right, jump through all of her picky hoops, we might have sex if I get off just touching her labia with my penis. I don't sugar coat many things.

From what I have read, the less sex a woman has, the more intercourse is going to be painful. She does not want to use any vibrator to stay in shape. I bought Replends and the Astroglide but they are not working very well now.

It seems I do the work, find a possible solution and she vetoes it. Because this has been going on in earnest (always some reason to not have sex) for 3 years, I am about at the end of my rope.

My post might sound like a complaint or I don't understand what some women go through. don't take it all that way. I am looking for suggestions.

I had had some advice from a female friend (no, no love interests) and her advice was, my W is being self centered and I do to much for her. The problem is not my W, but me for not acting more like an alpha man and caving in to my W limitations.

An example of a limitation would be, we don't go many places in the summertime=too hot for my W. We don't go any place more than 2 hours away from home=have to let the dogs out every 4 hours. We don't go anyplace overnight=she heard on the news some hotels/motel's might have bed bugs.

I posted lots of information so no one wonders what is going on.

I would like to have sex ( I would say make love but that takes two people. MY W decided she didn't need sex back in 1981) 3 or 4 times a month without it being martyrdom sex. I can do the hour long back and foot rubs several times a week, and I can do the Peace "Between the Sheets" making out things. I just can't do them and be turned away.

Right now I am about to leave the bedroom permanently. I have before and said if she wants a room mate R, I cant be her lover anf get almost nothing back. She was going to leave 3 years ago and looked for a house but saw she would have to do a lot more for herself than she does now.

We are sleeping in the same bed but I have to stay on my edge and not have any body contact. My W cuddles up with the dog.

She tells me she loves me but can't do more than occasional hug and monthly sex. If she had hew way sex would be annually. Me 3X a week but I would be willing for 1X a week.

That is about it. I hope someone can give me some advice. I am fairly empathetic and have been told I put up with too much garbage and give in too easily. I don't want to be an uncaring H, but this no sexual activity, and truthfully it's more the lack of emotional connection that's the bigger problem. My w can take but feels giving is just another word for someone taking advantage of her.

Married 38 years. W was my only romantic/sexual partner. We got married in 1968. I had back surgery in 1981, the R suffered and has been slowly going down hill since. We lived in the same house since 1974 and I am remodeling the kitchen, bath and general fixing up.

Thanks for any advice.

Lou

duplicate

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lou,

I would read this book if I were you:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400081572/sr=8-1/qid=...1639-2547229?ie=UTF8

I think she would greatly benefit from bioidentical hormone treatment. Frankly I think she would also benefit from my diet, but my diet is kind of a pain in the ass, and she doesn't sound to willing to work on her sex drive.

I do have to ask--are you able to give her an orgasm, or did you used to be able to?

Re zaneblue I would read this book if I were you
Thanks for the book recomendation.

I think she would also benefit from my diet
We both take cosatco brand Omega 3 fish oil cap at 3 a day I did take the DHEA and a vitimine.

she doesn't sound to willing to work on her sex drive.
You are right about the sex drive but she will work on her health, I might make some progress if it is a health improvement. She was on Prozac at onr time and If this stuff boosts mood, she might take it.

are you able to give her an orgasm
Orgasams were work for her.

She had them about 25% of the time before I had a back injury in 1981. I couldn't do much pre and post surgery which lasted 9 months. During that time, she was frustrated and lost interest and said she decided she never wanted to be sexually frustrated again, never wanted to depend on a man for sexual satisfaction and decidedno more tinglies for her, so is not willing to try. I offered many times.

Even when she had "O's" I asked what she liked and got her usual "I don't know".

We made out a lot prior to M but only had sex a couple of times. I did not want to get her PG so held back because I was in the Army and only making $68/$98 a month. I couldn't see me supporting a W and child on Army pay so played it safe.

During our honeymoon, (1968) we had sex usually 2X a day and after we had an apt for a while had sex 3X a week.

After the kids came along, our timing got off. We both wanted sex more but I had 2 jobs and she went to bed early, me late to finish work.
That PO'ed her big time but I only recently found out about how often she took care of herself. I was doing the same thing at the time. My W still holds resentments from 1975 to 1981.

I had back surgery in 1981, a couple of years where employment was poor, or the pay check was, eventhough I continued to work a lot.

Then in 1986 I had more back problems and was off work to re train for 3 years. I went to college. My W went to nursing school, then to work in a hospital that had a co-dependency therapy program.

My W worked in the psy ward. That is when the sex took a nose dive. All of a sudden men are jerks, controlling, they manipulate women, etc. BTW, according to my W, most books about sexuality are just so men can have sex more often. Most women don't like sex.

I made a lot of changes to accomodate the new femanism and it didn't help. I almost became a hen pecked Husband. According to my W I did a lot of things wrong, cooking, leaving a cup out of place, etc.

So that is the emotional side.

On the physical side, I know some of her complaints are valid medically. Her take on sexuality is women past a certain age are not built to have sex so she wants to give it up.

She over does some things, so I am looking to find ways to aleviate some of the physical discomforts. She had breast cancer so can't use anything hormonal.

She has said she only wants to have sex once a year but knows I won't go for that and be a happy camper.

She over does/states some things and I think some of her complaints are worse than actual experiences. Like I said in a post one time, I couldn't tell if my W had orgasams or is faking.

I could tell we needed to use lube, but she resisted that for a long time.

I could see she had UTI symptoms but she was convinced nothing short of no sex would prevnt them until I found enough information and discovered her guessing on some things that have to do with UTI's.

I am trying to do the same thing with two discomforts she tells me she has, A urethera irritation during penetration, and vavinal burning that is sometimes almost non-existant but sometimes requires just a quickie, which I don't like. I don't get much out of wam-bam's.

Add the hot flashes which really have subsided but with the loss of the emotional connections, she complains more about it. I added an airconditioner to the bedroom. That might work for a week or two, then a new complaint pops up.

She definatly does not do more than she has to. That area is a big problem for me most of the time.

Any way I will get the book. I didn't have any sexual or romantic experiences other than my W so being a skilled lover was not one of my strong areas. I did ask what she liked but got very few hints.

I saw my first "How to give a woman oral" when I got my hi-speed inter-net connection a couple of years ago. I heard about it but didn't know what felt good and what usually irritates most woman. I also saw clips of some Sinclair Intimacy videos that I wish I had seen when we first got married.

Me, Porn? Yes I have seen a bit. I don't go for the faked up screaming and Ohs. Give me some socker mom, a little flab/sag is normal, and her H having fun.

I did see a "sybian girls party" that I had no idea the device existed. No men involved. so I assume it was not faked up for effect. The young woman on the machine was so surprised she was having an "O" or a second "O", I couldn't tell. but it was good to see the overjoyed expressions on her face.

I am not a prude, but am inexperienced IRL but have read many books. I had one 400 level sex class in colege. My major was Human services, dealing with people with disabilities. They like sex too, was one part of the class.

I lost my other post and have re written part of it.

Thanks again. Any and all help appreciated. Some days I just want to go on vacation and forget about having a satisfactory R with my W after working on the r for 3+ years, but know I would feel bad if I did that. I am trying to do right by her but also liveable for me. Maybe that won't happen, I have come to the point that is OK too. It has taken me a while to get to this point.

I just found a site that has helped me some, maybe anyway. Educational videos by PhD's I have seen on TV.

Lou

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lou,

I'm not going to be able to help you on the relationship issues. I'm strictly physiology, with some practical sex techniques thrown in.

In general it's harder for senior women to have clitoral orgasms than vaginal orgasms. It sounds like she's been having vaginal orgasms all along.

The book is on hormone treatment. If she's had breast cancer that's out, both estrogen and testosterone, so don't waste your money on it. There are women on the newshe board who have had breast cancer and are still very motivated to do lots of things to help their sex drive, but your wife seems lacking in that fundamental motivation. The fish oil may help somewhat. How much EPA and DHA per capsule in the fish oil you are taking? L-arginine might help too with general physical sensation for her, but there are lots of relationship issues involved here that also pertain (that I can't help you with).

I can be more politically incorrect here than on the newshe board. I think you need a sense of self-preservation. I'm not saying to go out and have an affair, but in this situation I say do what you can with porn, and also consider getting a Fleshlight or two--I've heard the Speedbump and Wonderwave are very nice.

http://www.fleshlight.com

Don't let her kill your sex drive. Just because she has given up doesn't mean you should close off your own sexuality. At least she is having sex with you once a month, which is better than many at your age, although I know how discouraging that can be, being with a partner who is only grudgingly participating. Another book that might be helpful is Resurrecting Sex by David Schnarch.

I'm not going to be able to help you on the relationship issues.
For me to ask much in this area would be imposing.

I'm strictly physiology, with some practical sex techniques thrown in.
That is what I am mostly looking for ZB.

It sounds like she's been having vaginal orgasms all along.
Before 1981 yes, but not since. She said she wont try to re-lite her fire because she does not want to depend on a man again in that area.

The other side of my w is if I go somewhere over night I have to check in often because she tells me she worries about me. She wants me close but not too close. Frustrating.

If she's had breast cancer that's out, both estrogen and testosterone, so don't waste your money on it
Thanks for the advice. I have been looking for information about The Wisdom of Menopause [ by Northrupt and
Women's Sexualities: Generations of Women Share Intimate Secrets of Sexual Self-Acceptance which may not answer anything I can influence.

I can be more politically incorrect here than on the newshe board.
ZB, say anything as long as it represents the truth. I worked with deliquent boys for 7 yrs. and heard it all. I like honest with tact, no matter what is said. I am so sick of some of the politally correct BS.

I'm not saying to go out and have an affair,
Why not??? Just kidding ZB. Right now an A is not what I am looking for.

Some days if that fairy godmother in the cinderella story rang my door bell at the right time and said here is a woman like you that has a clean bill mentally, physically, financially, that my W approved and this woman was un-attached, I would be sorely tempted, at least till the guilt set in. I am not that religious but subscribe to a high version of KOHLBERG'S STAGES OF MORAL DEVELOPMENT, and the "GOLDEN RULE" the old one. Not he who has the gold rules.

How much EPA and DHA per capsule in the fish oil you are taking?
Costco's Kirkland brand is 1000mg fish oil, (anchovy, herring, sardine, sprat) with 300mg of Omega-3 fatty acids, 180mg of EPA, and 120mg of DHA.

She takes 2 a day now but was taking 3 a day. I am doing the same.

L-arginine might help too
I will have to read about L-arginine.

Resurrecting Sex by David Schnarch.
I have the book and read it. Even dicsussed parts of the book with other members of a forum I have been on for 3 years.

I like the book's concepts, use some of them like the not rescuing my W when she is upset. MY W won't open the book but I have read it in front of her. Her opinion is most sex books are written for the benefit of men's sexual pleasure. My W was heavily in to co-dependency. This is just information and I don't expect you to do anything about most of thist post. Maybe I should leave out all of the feelings, potential causes but I felt it might be helpful.

Flashlight
I don't know if I am ready for that today. I have been to the point of wanting to go that route many times.

Bare handing it or getting off in the shower with lots of soap was my MO. I recently added Astroglide to my MB activities.

ZB, there are orgasams, and sex and ML. I gave up on the idea of ML, am some what OK with the sex for mostly me that we sometimes have. My W thinks it is only about the orgasams. I guess I go with what I have at the moment but I really miss the interaction with another person I have some type of emotional connection with, but don't many of us. So a fleshlight is not out of the question.

At least she is having sex with you once a month, which is better than many at your age, although I know how discouraging that can be, being with a partner who is only grudgingly participating.
The grudginly almost hurts as much as the no sex times. On the other hand sometimes hormonal drive tells me F her lack of interest, this thing is gon'a blow it I don't let out some steam.

I don't intend to just dry up ZB. Thanks for the help, information, and encouragement.

Lou

Your wife is taking 360 mg of EPA and 240 mg of DHA per day. I personally am taking ten times that. A sneaky way to get her to up her intake is to buy a high-quality brand where the recommended dose on the bottle is high, like the capsules from here:

http://www.zonelabsinc.com

With her various health issues, though, you should check with her doctor before upping her fish oil dose. How much does she weigh? Also people on blood-thinning medications, who take lots of over-the-counter pain relievers, allergic to seafood, scheduled for surgery or with defibrillators shouldn't take high dose fish oil like this.

I will confess I think with the psychology of your wife, that she might end up feeling competitive with a Fleshlight, particularly if it is the inserts shaped like a vulva. I know that sounds a bit silly, but I think she enjoys having control over you. If you present the toy as a way for her to participate in sex without having to really participate, like you are complying with her wishes, she might be caught. So if you simply have her use the toy on you in lieu of actual relations during your three times a week episodes, she might find herself more turned on than she would expect and want to compete with the toy.

Although I might be completely wrong about this, obviously you would be a better judge at predicting her reaction than me. But I have heard from many men that their wives do find using it on their partners unexpectedly arousing. Of course she might be too straitlaced to consider such a thing.

I am really hoping by ML that you don't mean marital love.

How much does she weigh?
185, 5'4", does Pilaties on a machine every other day, takes med for low thyroid, cut back on eating but does not move around much during the day.

will confess I think with the psychology of your wife, that she might end up feeling competitive with a Fleshlight, particularly if it is the inserts shaped like a vulva.
And I thought it would pi$$ her off. You might be right. One night after 3 days of being affectionate with nothing happening on her part and giving me all the signs, Not again we just had sex 3 weeks ago, I said I was about to go nuts and needed at least a hand job. She said she didn't want to do that and offered her vagina if I would make it quick. I think she doesn’t want to be left out in the cold or feel like she is flawed. So the competition might be right.

Her meds right now:
Prilosec for acid reflux.
synthetic thyroid med for low function thyroid.
Hydrochlorothiazide for slightly high blood pressure.
Fosomax 10 mg daily for beginning bone loss.
1200 mg calcium.
2000 fish oil.
a woman’s daily vitamin pack. Dr Taub's brand QVC for women over 55.
A nose spray RX for allegories.
I am between printer repairs and don't have time to find the correct spelling, sorry about that. I can get the correct spelling, dosage and times taken if I need to.

She drinks lots of water.
In bed 8+ hours a day and naps in the afternoon.
Is very picky about many things like too hot, too cold, which brand of a food item she will eat, where we eat out.

This is also part of the relationship problems I have with her. I even had to say get in the car and keep quiet. We are going to ABC's to eat tonight.

I think she enjoys having control over you.
Well why not? Men are such controlling animals, she has a right to take back that control. That is my W's position. I used to be in control more but when out of work back in the 80" I lost a lot of ground and when she assisted in facilitating the co-dependency classes at her work, I struggle to get some control back.

particularly if it is the inserts shaped like a vulva.
I went on the web site and built my cyber fleshlight. I got the non-descript shape with the 3/4" smooth bore, ice colored model. I suppose that says something about me. Play it safe.

I am really hoping by ML that you don't mean marital love.
I guess I have a question about what you mean by marital love.

To me sex has many levels
Level one is what is in it for me. F'em and leave them type of thing. What some high school boys think or talk about.

Level two is what can I bring to the table my partner likes but still not be all that interested in her pleasure.

Way up the scale is Level ??? something tartaric like where we each do things for the other and our self. Maybe like really good F buddies. Just guessing here.

To me ML was not as intense sexually as the tantric ???? level but had more emotional connections and more intimate bonding experiences. My W and I had that level when we had sex with the intent of her getting pregnant.

We did that other times too when we were feeling hot for each other in a way that only comes from wanting the best for ourselves and the other person where mostly what you think about is how hot you are now and how good it will feel to be with that person the next day, week, month, kids, household chores, car payments and all.

When I said ML I indicated the other person is wanting to be with me long term, is glad the event is happening, gives their all, ask for what they want and I can do the same, and will want to keep doing it with the same person for a long time.

Sex for me is part EC, part biology. Right now I have sex with my W. She is there but not having sex with me. She is there for the back scratch and doing it because she feels if she doesn't she might not like something down the road.

It is not too different from the "I love you, but I an not in love with you", IE not much sexual chemistry, that some people feel when they start thinking about not making their spouse a priority.

So the flesh light with the internal bumps and pink colored like her????

Thanks ZB

Lou

Thyroid very definitely impacts libido. She's dealing with a lot of medical issues that decrease libido, if that makes you feel any better.

My recommendations--get the stuff from Zone Labs (it is pricey). That way she's only taking four capsules of it a day, only double the amount of capsules she's taking now but delivering five times the amount of omega-3 fatty acids.

Instead of her taking plain calcium, next time get the calcium/magnesium/zinc kind.

And absolutely get the pink lady Speedbump or Wonderwave Fleshlight, your pick. Heated up ahead of time in warm water and lubed up with Astroglide, it will probably feel better just from a sensation point of view than her. It will shift the balance of power--which might be a good thing or might be a bad thing, your call. But if you are going to buy one, get the provocative one, that's my two cents. All's fair in love and war.

Instead of her taking plain calcium, next time get the calcium/magnesium/zinc kind.
Thanks ZB

But if you are going to buy one, get the provocative one, that's my two cents. All's fair in love and war.
Hay, you seem to play for keeps, A or B. I like that.

I have to go and do a meeting tonight just to get out of the house more.

Thanks

Lou